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Iraq war was Clinton's idea.

 
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maximus99



Joined: 07 Sep 2012
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 26, 2013 1:58 pm    Post subject: Iraq war was Clinton's idea. Add User to Ignore List Reply with quote

It was Clinton who got us into Iraq.
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Truth_Equals_Freedom



Joined: 14 Jun 2012
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Location: Cape May County

PostPosted: Mon Aug 26, 2013 7:11 pm    Post subject: Add User to Ignore List Reply with quote

A ground invasion may not have been his idea but under his presidency, Bill Clinton expanded the concept of the H.W. implemented "No Fly Zones". Operation Desert Fox... Something like 1.3 million pounds of ordenance rained down not only on SAM sites but expanded to include command and control centers and communication complexes as well. Rules of engagement were loosened to allow provocation missions, or "Wild Weasel" strikes. Allied aircraft flew into Iraqi airspace, if the Iraqis turned on their radars, that constituted hostile intent and a threat to aircraft patrolling the airspace. The complex was ruled a valid target and destroyed. The original no fly zones, under HW, were to prevent Saddam from using his remaining fixed wing aircraft and helicopters to attack the Kurds in the north and Shiites in the south. "If it flies it dies" to borrow an old Naval air warfare motto.

We may not have had a large number of boots on the ground (a few special ops designating targets and CSAR teams) but we were attacking Iraq all throughout the Clinton era.


Last edited by Truth_Equals_Freedom on Mon Aug 26, 2013 7:40 pm; edited 1 time in total
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spazcat



Joined: 26 Feb 2008
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 26, 2013 7:15 pm    Post subject: Add User to Ignore List Reply with quote

no i'm pretty sure EVERYTHING is obama's fault. Laughing
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Scorpion



Joined: 08 Mar 2006
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 26, 2013 9:51 pm    Post subject: Add User to Ignore List Reply with quote

spazcat wrote:
no i'm pretty sure EVERYTHING is obama's fault. Laughing


Why the sudden change of heart, spaz? Oh wait, you're making a joke!
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sixpointstar



Joined: 16 Feb 2013
Posts: 1664

PostPosted: Mon Aug 26, 2013 11:17 pm    Post subject: Add User to Ignore List Reply with quote

Scorpion wrote:
spazcat wrote:
no i'm pretty sure EVERYTHING is obama's fault. Laughing


Why the sudden change of heart, spaz? Oh wait, you're making a joke!


Nah, spazz is only releasing more of smelliness.
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spazcat



Joined: 26 Feb 2008
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 26, 2013 11:25 pm    Post subject: Add User to Ignore List Reply with quote

scorp and sixpack, must be great knowing you two have each other. Laughing Laughing Laughing
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villainesta



Joined: 12 Apr 2008
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Location: Wildwood Villas

PostPosted: Tue Aug 27, 2013 5:57 am    Post subject: Add User to Ignore List Reply with quote

The initial conflict to expel Iraqi troops from Kuwait began with an aerial bombardment on 17 January 1991. This was followed by a ground assault on 24 February. This was a decisive victory for the Coalition forces, who liberated Kuwait and advanced into Iraqi territory. The Coalition ceased their advance, and declared a cease-fire 100 hours after the ground campaign started. Aerial and ground combat was confined to Iraq, Kuwait, and areas on Saudi Arabia's border[/b\

'
The December 1998 bombing of Iraq (code-named Operation Desert Fox) was a major four-day bombing campaign on Iraqi targets from December 16, 1998, to December 19, 1998, by the United States and United Kingdom. The contemporaneous justification for the strikes was Iraq's failure to comply with United Nations Security Council resolutions as well as their interference with United Nations Special Commission inspectors.


The first attack on Iraq began under H. W, Bush. Not Bill Clinton.
Truth_Equals_Freedom needs to get his facts straight.
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Truth_Equals_Freedom



Joined: 14 Jun 2012
Posts: 54
Location: Cape May County

PostPosted: Tue Aug 27, 2013 7:32 am    Post subject: Add User to Ignore List Reply with quote

villainesta wrote:
The initial conflict to expel Iraqi troops from Kuwait began with an aerial bombardment on 17 January 1991. This was followed by a ground assault on 24 February. This was a decisive victory for the Coalition forces, who liberated Kuwait and advanced into Iraqi territory. The Coalition ceased their advance, and declared a cease-fire 100 hours after the ground campaign started. Aerial and ground combat was confined to Iraq, Kuwait, and areas on Saudi Arabia's border[/b\

'
The December 1998 bombing of Iraq (code-named Operation Desert Fox) was a major four-day bombing campaign on Iraqi targets from December 16, 1998, to December 19, 1998, by the United States and United Kingdom. The contemporaneous justification for the strikes was Iraq's failure to comply with United Nations Security Council resolutions as well as their interference with United Nations Special Commission inspectors.


The first attack on Iraq began under H. W, Bush. Not Bill Clinton.
Truth_Equals_Freedom needs to get his facts straight.


How many air crews do you know, who spent years flying out of Kuwait, UAE and off of carrier decks? Probably not as many as I do. Are you telling me that we did not spend years implementing and escalading the Northern and Southern No Fly Zones? Combat sorties began in 1997 and ceased in 2003. Google Operations Northern and Southern Watch if you think I'm exaggerating. I specifically mentioned Desert Fox as one operation in the multi-year campaign. I wasn't blaming anybody for anything or calling it unjustified or debating the morality... I was stating actual facts and numbers and timeframes.

I was NOT refering to Operation Desert Storm which initiated with cruise missile and aerial bombardment on 1991-01-17 and concluded on 1991-02-24. Get your facts straight Villainesta.
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villainesta



Joined: 12 Apr 2008
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Location: Wildwood Villas

PostPosted: Tue Aug 27, 2013 7:56 am    Post subject: Add User to Ignore List Reply with quote

Quote:

It was Clinton who got us into Iraq.


You post was couched in such a way as to support that claim which is demonstratively false. The no fly zone was a result of Desert Storm but the great conqueror General
Norman Schwarzkopf, Jr (storming Norman) didn't include helicopters in the no fly zones which Clinton continued which Saddam used to attack the Kurds who Bush had encouraged to rebel but Bush wimped out and did nothing.The Iraq army was a long, long way from being the equal of Germany's 6th Army. "Storming Normans bravado was an embarrassment.

did any of your buddies tell you about this:
http://deoxy.org/wc/wc-death.htm

http://deoxy.org/wc/warcrime.htm
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sixpointstar



Joined: 16 Feb 2013
Posts: 1664

PostPosted: Tue Aug 27, 2013 8:30 am    Post subject: Add User to Ignore List Reply with quote

spazcat wrote:
scorp and sixpack, must be great knowing you two have each other. Laughing Laughing Laughing


Spazz one thing that you can be assure of is, that there are a lot more us that have been smelling your smelliness for way to long of a time. You reek of falseness. You are only this forum's jester. That is all you were, that is all you will always be , just a, jester of this forum. Why are you still here? Take that kool aid fool, with you. We never really left Iraq. We white people came form that area. We will always be there to see that the land is controled by us, and our allies. You few dumb folks talk some real dumb poop.
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sharks-eat-commies



Joined: 26 Jul 2012
Posts: 4176

PostPosted: Tue Aug 27, 2013 8:40 am    Post subject: Add User to Ignore List Reply with quote

spazcat wrote:
scorp and sixpack, must be great knowing you two have each other. Laughing Laughing Laughing


ahhh...the company you have to keep when you're a Republican Laughing
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sharks-eat-commies



Joined: 26 Jul 2012
Posts: 4176

PostPosted: Tue Aug 27, 2013 8:41 am    Post subject: Add User to Ignore List Reply with quote

sixpointstar wrote:
spazcat wrote:
scorp and sixpack, must be great knowing you two have each other. Laughing Laughing Laughing


Spazz one thing that you can be assure of is, that there are a lot more us that have been smelling your smelliness for way to long of a time. You reek of falseness. You are only this forum's jester. That is all you were, that is all you will always be , just a, jester of this forum. Why are you still here? Take that kool aid fool, with you. We never really left Iraq. We white people came form that area. We will always be there to see that the land is controled by us, and our allies. You few dumb folks talk some real dumb poop.


And you are this forum's illiterate religious crazy.
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Truth_Equals_Freedom



Joined: 14 Jun 2012
Posts: 54
Location: Cape May County

PostPosted: Tue Aug 27, 2013 11:49 am    Post subject: Add User to Ignore List Reply with quote

villainesta wrote:
Quote:

It was Clinton who got us into Iraq.


You post was couched in such a way as to support that claim which is demonstratively false. The no fly zone was a result of Desert Storm but the great conqueror General
Norman Schwarzkopf, Jr (storming Norman) didn't include helicopters in the no fly zones which Clinton continued which Saddam used to attack the Kurds who Bush had encouraged to rebel but Bush wimped out and did nothing.The Iraq army was a long, long way from being the equal of Germany's 6th Army. "Storming Normans bravado was an embarrassment.

did any of your buddies tell you about this:
http://deoxy.org/wc/wc-death.htm

http://deoxy.org/wc/warcrime.htm


My post supported no such claim. I countered the statement that Clinton got us in Iraq with what military actions actually did occur there under his presidency. As I stated before, the US and Great Britain continued a plan which was put in place at the end of ODS, they expanded the Rules of Engagement to include a wider array of targets. What I did not state previously was that broadening of the target list was meant to punish the Hussein regime for not allowing UN weapons inspectors the access they wanted. Bomb them into compliance.

Yes I know all about the Highway of Death and how members of the HW administration were genuinely concerned that they would face charges of war crimes for the disproportional response to what was essentially a defeated and retreating enemy. The images relayed back to the White House solidified HW's decision to cease offensive combat operations the next day. BTW, what does the Highway of Death have to do with Bill Clinton?

War is a horrible endeavour that our species has yet to figure out how to avoid. Judging who was evil, who was right, what makes one killing ok but another a war crime is a slipery slope. The firebombing of Tokyo and Dresden and nuking of Hiroshima and Nagasaki were ok but Highway of Death was murder... The simple answer is morality, justification and criminality are determined by the victor. Might makes right. While I personally don't subscribe to that theory and have my own strong moral compass, history tends to prove me wrong.

villainesta, if you're ticked because I didn't just scream out, "Max you're a liar", sorry, it's not my style. I'm not an us vs. them, left vs. right, Dem vs. Rep, black vs. white, Atheist vs. Christian mudslinger. I try to post intelligent, factual, coherent information on topics I know something about or have a valid opinion on. I stand by my original post as an accurate, factual and independent observation regarding the Clinton Administration's role in military actions conducted in Iraq.
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sixpointstar



Joined: 16 Feb 2013
Posts: 1664

PostPosted: Tue Aug 27, 2013 12:00 pm    Post subject: Add User to Ignore List Reply with quote

sharks-eat-commies wrote:
sixpointstar wrote:
spazcat wrote:
scorp and sixpack, must be great knowing you two have each other. Laughing Laughing Laughing


Spazz one thing that you can be assure of is, that there are a lot more us that have been smelling your smelliness for way to long of a time. You reek of falseness. You are only this forum's jester. That is all you were, that is all you will always be , just a, jester of this forum. Why are you still here? Take that kool aid fool, with you. We never really left Iraq. We white people came form that area. We will always be there to see that the land is controled by us, and our allies. You few dumb folks talk some real dumb poop.


And you are this forum's illiterate religious crazy.


Sharky your weakness is showing again. The empty Pool is waiting. Sharky, can a shark live without water?
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villainesta



Joined: 12 Apr 2008
Posts: 2358
Location: Wildwood Villas

PostPosted: Tue Aug 27, 2013 12:32 pm    Post subject: Add User to Ignore List Reply with quote

Quote:
We may not have had a large number of boots on the ground (a few special ops designating targets and CSAR teams) but we were attacking Iraq all throughout the Clinton era.


You erred by omission Leaving the reader to make the leap between Desert Fox and Desert Storm. And as for the Highway of Death no it has nothing to do with Clinton but you bragged about having buddies in so many air crews I thought you might have some insights into their frame of mind during this brutal attack. I wonder who ordered it. The bombing of Japan with atom weapons was a result of the Okinawa fight which was desperately resisted by the Japanese defenders and took I think 25000 American lives It was thought that an invasion of the home islands would cost 250,000 American lives and result in the death of millions of civilians. As a matter of fact there were a group of die hards who were going to bomb the Missouri in Tokyo Bay to end all chances of surrender but a representative of the Emperor arrived when they were warming up the planes and prevented them from carrying out there plan.But at this time it was not known about the effect of radiation from the bomb. The attack on the Iraqis who were following UN instructions and posed no threat to US forces was a criminal act.
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spazcat



Joined: 26 Feb 2008
Posts: 7657
Location: whatsamatta u

PostPosted: Tue Aug 27, 2013 1:06 pm    Post subject: Add User to Ignore List Reply with quote

whose idea was it for the simple minded to believe complete twaddle and try to pass it off as the truth? was it faux news, or a cabal of the talking right wingnut heads: beck, hannity etal? they should be shot! Rolling Eyes
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sharks-eat-commies



Joined: 26 Jul 2012
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 27, 2013 3:03 pm    Post subject: Add User to Ignore List Reply with quote

sixpointstar wrote:
sharks-eat-commies wrote:
sixpointstar wrote:
spazcat wrote:
scorp and sixpack, must be great knowing you two have each other. Laughing Laughing Laughing


Spazz one thing that you can be assure of is, that there are a lot more us that have been smelling your smelliness for way to long of a time. You reek of falseness. You are only this forum's jester. That is all you were, that is all you will always be , just a, jester of this forum. Why are you still here? Take that kool aid fool, with you. We never really left Iraq. We white people came form that area. We will always be there to see that the land is controled by us, and our allies. You few dumb folks talk some real dumb poop.


And you are this forum's illiterate religious crazy.


Sharky your weakness is showing again. The empty Pool is waiting. Sharky, can a shark live without water?


Just another inexplicably weird reply from the forum religious creep. Don't be stewpid...do you really think that a shark can live out of water? Have you suffered severe brain injuries?
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Thomas Jones



Joined: 24 Jul 2013
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 27, 2013 3:04 pm    Post subject: Add User to Ignore List Reply with quote

SHARKS, YOU ARE A LIAR AND I PROVED THAT ON THE OTHER FORUM....STILL WAITING ON THE PICTURE OF THE BRIDGE YOU WERE SUPPOSEDLY ON!!!SEE TOPIC: THE END OF AMERICAN FREEDOM, PAGE 1 Question Question Question Shocked Shocked Shocked
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Truth_Equals_Freedom



Joined: 14 Jun 2012
Posts: 54
Location: Cape May County

PostPosted: Tue Aug 27, 2013 7:59 pm    Post subject: Add User to Ignore List Reply with quote

villainesta wrote:
Quote:
We may not have had a large number of boots on the ground (a few special ops designating targets and CSAR teams) but we were attacking Iraq all throughout the Clinton era.


You erred by omission Leaving the reader to make the leap between Desert Fox and Desert Storm. And as for the Highway of Death no it has nothing to do with Clinton but you bragged about having buddies in so many air crews I thought you might have some insights into their frame of mind during this brutal attack. I wonder who ordered it. The bombing of Japan with atom weapons was a result of the Okinawa fight which was desperately resisted by the Japanese defenders and took I think 25000 American lives It was thought that an invasion of the home islands would cost 250,000 American lives and result in the death of millions of civilians. As a matter of fact there were a group of die hards who were going to bomb the Missouri in Tokyo Bay to end all chances of surrender but a representative of the Emperor arrived when they were warming up the planes and prevented them from carrying out there plan.But at this time it was not known about the effect of radiation from the bomb. The attack on the Iraqis who were following UN instructions and posed no threat to US forces was a criminal act.


Wow, I erred by omission and I lead the reader to make the leap? A leap backwards in time no less since Fox followed Storm. Just to be perfectly clear, I was in favor of Desert Fox, and the expansion of the ROEs of Northern & Southern Watch, I didn't consider Clinton going after BinLaden as a Wag The Dog action like the far right did In 1998. I supported Bush and OIF until WMDs were not found and by disbanding the police and military we created the perfect conditions for an insurgency... I supported destroying al Qaeda and their Taliban sponsors in Afghanistan, not over a decade of nation building, I support drone strikes under Bush and Obama, I supported providing CSAR, intel, refueling and logistical support in Libya... Sense a pattern here? I support the use of our Armed Forces to attack and neutralize threats to America and our genuine, no :: bologna :: Allies. Where it wont make a bad situation worse, I am for limited military engagements to stop genocide. I am against being an occupying force, a one country UN and an endless stream of money not being spent on American roads, bridges, airports, seaports, rail lines, border security... Right now, as I type this we are paying to cut up million dollar MRAPs in Afghanistan because it is more expensive to ship them back... 7 billion dollars worth of equipment being cut up right now... Waste... Waste... Waste...

We completely agree on the historical analysis of WWII. I've had the honor of meeting and speaking with Gen. Paul Tibbets and dozens of other WWII bomber and fighter pilots. An invasion of Honshu was expected to cost half a million American casualties. The nuclear weapons unleashed on Hiroshima and Nagasaki undoubtedly saved more lives then they took.
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