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SICTA does not represent me!
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Change Is Inevitable



Joined: 16 Apr 2007
Posts: 761
Location: Sea Isle

PostPosted: Thu Mar 24, 2011 7:28 am    Post subject: Add User to Ignore List Reply with quote

Average tax bill for SIC is around approx.$400-$500 per household(third lowest school taxes in the State).

Front page of the AC Press it says that the average for Ocean City is $1,282.

If they close the school will school taxes go down? How much? who knows.

Will it cost more with more to bus lower grades to OC?

What will happen to the building? They won't tell us!

Will we have to pay back the $600,000 roof if the school closes? They won't tell us!

Is it worth colsing a school, in the hopes of possible saving a few dollars on your tax bill and bussing all of your children 45 min. to another district worth it?

It is all about power!

No care for children!

SICTA in action!
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theturfer



Joined: 23 Oct 2007
Posts: 14

PostPosted: Thu Mar 24, 2011 6:50 pm    Post subject: Add User to Ignore List Reply with quote

they will not tell you or anyone cause they are scared. they won't shut the school cause they are big chickens. all talk. . if they want to do it, just do it. pull the plug. fire everyone and lock the doors. but they wont. call fat christie and have him do it.so someone can do your dirty work.
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freddy



Joined: 29 Jan 2007
Posts: 9665
Location: stone harbor

PostPosted: Sat Mar 26, 2011 8:23 am    Post subject: Add User to Ignore List Reply with quote

Nice calm well thought out post turfer. Actually they are doing it correctly if you want to avoid lawsuits by the "tenured" teachers.
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Change Is Inevitable



Joined: 16 Apr 2007
Posts: 761
Location: Sea Isle

PostPosted: Sat Mar 26, 2011 8:31 am    Post subject: Add User to Ignore List Reply with quote

AC Press, Average Tax Bill in Ocean City is $1,282

SICBOE Power Point Presentation...Average Tax bill in SIC is $504.15

More than double the school tax in OC.
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freddy



Joined: 29 Jan 2007
Posts: 9665
Location: stone harbor

PostPosted: Sat Mar 26, 2011 9:14 am    Post subject: Add User to Ignore List Reply with quote

And exactly where is it said that that would become the rate for SI? The rate per child is constant at 16K. So 16k x 100kids(not sure there are even 100)= 1600000.

1.6mm diveded by 5000 residences(ballpark)=$320.

Simple math I realize. Is this how it is calculated? If so it may go down.
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Change Is Inevitable



Joined: 16 Apr 2007
Posts: 761
Location: Sea Isle

PostPosted: Sat Mar 26, 2011 1:37 pm    Post subject: Add User to Ignore List Reply with quote

Freddy, have your taxes ever gone down?

I feel if you start messing with the formula they are going to go sky high.

Just my opinion.
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freddy



Joined: 29 Jan 2007
Posts: 9665
Location: stone harbor

PostPosted: Sat Mar 26, 2011 1:45 pm    Post subject: Add User to Ignore List Reply with quote

They dont go down because politicians,both parties are blood suckers. If they ever they admit they can get by on less then they may have to do it again. Every head of a municipal department makes sure theyspend every penny, even if they could have a surplus, so they can ask for more next year. Its routine.
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Change Is Inevitable



Joined: 16 Apr 2007
Posts: 761
Location: Sea Isle

PostPosted: Sat Mar 26, 2011 1:55 pm    Post subject: Add User to Ignore List Reply with quote

Third lowest in state......why fool with it?


http://www.nytimes.com/packages/html/nyregion/20061126_TAXES_GRAPHIC/data.html
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freddy



Joined: 29 Jan 2007
Posts: 9665
Location: stone harbor

PostPosted: Sat Mar 26, 2011 2:11 pm    Post subject: Add User to Ignore List Reply with quote

50/50 chance ofit going down. Until I see facts from either side I have to thinkthat reducing the per pupil cost from 33k to 16k will reduce the school tax.
This is not an issue that should be based on 7 teachers keeping jobs and maybe 20 families(some non taxpayers).
It should bebased on whats best for the entire tax paying base.
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Lucyinthesky



Joined: 09 Mar 2011
Posts: 108
Location: by the sea

PostPosted: Mon Mar 28, 2011 11:58 am    Post subject: SICTA Add User to Ignore List Reply with quote

This is where I have trouble with the numbers.

The school budget should include several categories for education costs:
1. cost of educating preK through grade 3 in the SIC school building
2. tuition paid to OCBOE for the 4th through 8th graders
3. tuition paid to OCBOE for the high school kids
4. tuition paid to CMC Technical H.S. for high school kids
5. tuition paid to Ocean Academy, CMC Special Services, etc. for special needs placement kids
6. cost paid for kids (if any) placed in a correctional facility or similar

Let's call all of those 6 categories the tuition costs. There may be more categories. Of those 6 categories, the SICBOE only truly controls the cost of educating the preK through 3rd graders "in house". All the other tuition category charges are controlled by the providers of those services.

Then there's transportation costs for all school age children, whether they go to Bishop McHugh, Wildwood Catholic, Avalon Elementary, etc. They either get bussed or the SICBOE reimburses their parents for the annual transportation cost.

Then, there are the other budget categories:
1. cost to maintain the school building and grounds (regardless of number of students)
2. pension and benefits paid to retired SICBOE employees
3. salary and benefits for current SICBOE administrators and their staff (chief school administrator and secretary, school business admin and secretary, nurse, special services team, etc),
and
4. costs to run the SICBOE itself: mandatory training seminars, publications, lawyer, audit, photocopies

And there have got to be lots of other categories, like insurance, and payments on lawsuits, equipment, library, computers, heating and electric, water, supplies, etc.

So ...
say you have 40 kids in grades preK through 3rd.
And say you have another 40 kids at OC for grades 4 thru 8.
And another 20 at OCHS, maybe 5 at Tech.
Another 8 at Special Services, all different grades.
2 or 3 in another type of special placement.

But the budget doesn't get broken down that way. All the tuition costs across all 14 grades seem to get lumped together, then divided by the number of kids actually in the building in SIC. Then the number for the whole budget gets divided by the number of kids actually in the building in SIC, and that's the number that SICTA uses to "prove" their arguments about the school.

Maybe i'm naive, but that's not what I thought accounting and budgets were supposed to be about. That doesn't make sense, and it doesn't show the correct picture. But I think the SICBOE likes to make it look like its such a horrible situation, and they forget that these are actual kids they are dealing with.
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freddy



Joined: 29 Jan 2007
Posts: 9665
Location: stone harbor

PostPosted: Mon Mar 28, 2011 12:20 pm    Post subject: Add User to Ignore List Reply with quote

Thats the problem. Neither side gives true numbers. One side yells its going up and one side yells its going down.
However, I pretty sure the state numbers are a direct pupil cost to those kids in the SI school. All the other costs are factored into the overall budget.
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barracuda



Joined: 08 Jun 2009
Posts: 1968

PostPosted: Mon Mar 28, 2011 1:31 pm    Post subject: Add User to Ignore List Reply with quote

Right Freddy. The figures reported on the states site "NJ Report Card" are figures submitted directly by the school and then the state adds a comparative cost for similar schools. Last I looked on the state site for 2009 SI was $31,207.00 per pupil compared to similar schools charge of $15,168.00.
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Lucyinthesky



Joined: 09 Mar 2011
Posts: 108
Location: by the sea

PostPosted: Mon Mar 28, 2011 4:05 pm    Post subject: Add User to Ignore List Reply with quote

That's the problem. The numbers are provided by the school ... actually, provided by the school board to the state.

Maybe Barracuda has some insight ... you seem to know about small school districts in the southern part of the county. For the small districts, do any have buildings and administration? Do any educate some children "in house" but send others out of district?
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sunny day



Joined: 11 Sep 2006
Posts: 413
Location: sea isle city

PostPosted: Mon Mar 28, 2011 4:47 pm    Post subject: Add User to Ignore List Reply with quote

The bottom line is there is too much building for the present student population. And the current school board, with their snotty attitude, has been unsuccessful in getting help from the council and mayor with other paying tenants for the building. We need a little less Miss Actuary and a lot more of a cheerful marketing guru to solve the problem.
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freddy



Joined: 29 Jan 2007
Posts: 9665
Location: stone harbor

PostPosted: Mon Mar 28, 2011 6:31 pm    Post subject: Add User to Ignore List Reply with quote

I cant imagine the parents of young kids would want non school employees to be in the building during the day. I would not want my kids school building to be publi access.
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sunny day



Joined: 11 Sep 2006
Posts: 413
Location: sea isle city

PostPosted: Mon Mar 28, 2011 6:41 pm    Post subject: Add User to Ignore List Reply with quote

There are many ways to divide off areas and have separate doors. State law addresses all these issues.
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barracuda



Joined: 08 Jun 2009
Posts: 1968

PostPosted: Tue Mar 29, 2011 5:31 am    Post subject: Add User to Ignore List Reply with quote

Lucy...some comparable info.

Stats are from 2009/10. These school districts all have buildings, administration and send some students out of district.
# students
Cape May City Elem. 169
Stone Harbor 80
West Cape May 47

ratio...student/faculty.....state average comparable schools.(10.8 students to teacher)
Cape May City Elem. 9.0
Stone Harbor 6.0
West Cape May 5.6
Sea Isle 4.3

Cost per pupil
Cape May City Elem. $16,176.00*
Stone Harbor $23,698.00
West Cape May $21,856.00
*Cape May Elem. has a large percentage of children from the Coast Guard Base and receives Federal funding for those students.
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Lucyinthesky



Joined: 09 Mar 2011
Posts: 108
Location: by the sea

PostPosted: Tue Mar 29, 2011 10:36 am    Post subject: Add User to Ignore List Reply with quote

hmm, interesting.
now will go back and check against SICTA reports ...

someone said something about renting part of the school building. Wasn't the school on the list of possible locations for the new library? And McHale, Henry, etc were against that? But Avalon managed to put the school and library in one building. I would imagine there were some tax and cost savings there.
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freddy



Joined: 29 Jan 2007
Posts: 9665
Location: stone harbor

PostPosted: Tue Mar 29, 2011 10:42 am    Post subject: Add User to Ignore List Reply with quote

Actually....all the money wasted in SH, Avalon and SI on new libraries is tantamount to blackmail. These towns threaten to pull out of the CMC library system(CMC then loses the funding that these towns pay into) unless they build a new dinosaur.
I dont think any politician in SI wanted it in the school because that would have decreased how much they extorted from the county just like SH and Avalon.
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Lucyinthesky



Joined: 09 Mar 2011
Posts: 108
Location: by the sea

PostPosted: Tue Mar 29, 2011 2:40 pm    Post subject: Add User to Ignore List Reply with quote

but they might have been able to get partial funding from the school construction corp, or whatever it's called ---- instead, how did the school just pay for that new roof?
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freddy



Joined: 29 Jan 2007
Posts: 9665
Location: stone harbor

PostPosted: Tue Mar 29, 2011 2:45 pm    Post subject: Add User to Ignore List Reply with quote

Bake sale?
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sunny day



Joined: 11 Sep 2006
Posts: 413
Location: sea isle city

PostPosted: Tue Mar 29, 2011 3:07 pm    Post subject: Add User to Ignore List Reply with quote

I think they had a grant but also turned down a grant for AC because they want to close the school.
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Change Is Inevitable



Joined: 16 Apr 2007
Posts: 761
Location: Sea Isle

PostPosted: Tue Mar 29, 2011 3:10 pm    Post subject: Add User to Ignore List Reply with quote

I think the state kicked in $300,000 something and the board paid the balance of $250,000. Just guessing on the #'s, but its around there.
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Lucyinthesky



Joined: 09 Mar 2011
Posts: 108
Location: by the sea

PostPosted: Thu Mar 31, 2011 12:14 pm    Post subject: Add User to Ignore List Reply with quote

And yet, they had an opportunity to apply for state funding for repairs and improvements that would have put that building right, regardless of whether they continue to use it or if they shared it with a library. My point is, each of us is paying tax dollars to state, county, city and school district. The school board could have used state funds (which is a smaller chunk of my change) on the building improvements, and cooperated with the county on co-locating the library there, so that county funds could have built a new library to be shared by school and community. That would have used county funds, which again, has a smaller chunk of my taxes. instead, by choosing to pay for some the repairs themselves, they threw the cost of that project into their budget and passed it on to us local tax payers. That would be called, getting "bang for your buck". Instead, they passed the buck.

That doesn't sound like Fiscal Efficiency, or whatever the heck their campaign slogan is.
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freddy



Joined: 29 Jan 2007
Posts: 9665
Location: stone harbor

PostPosted: Thu Mar 31, 2011 2:08 pm    Post subject: Add User to Ignore List Reply with quote

How many members does SICTA have?
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